You Katami and Takashi Otsuka talk about queer culture in the 2000s

There was a gay boom in the 1990s, and then in the 2000s and 2010s, the term "LGBT" became commonplace and the parade [A] became popular, and there were social movements. In comparison to these, the 2000s didn't see any major developments, and it felt like a transitional period. How do you look back on that time, Otsuka-san?

I think it can be said that this was a time when sexual minorities, including myself, began to become active themselves. By becoming active, we gained a real sense that we could do something, which I think led to the subsequent rise of social movements. In the sense that the activities at the time were not widely recognized by the general public, it might be more accurate to say that this was a "period of laying the groundwork."

I see. Is this "creation of the groundwork" different from the gay boom of the 1990s? One example is the gay trilogy [B] in Bessatsu Takarajima, which you were deeply involved in.

Looking back, the boom of the 90s was a boom for straight people. I was commissioned to make a gay trilogy, and it sold well, so it became a trilogy. To put it bluntly, it was the result of what society wanted.

Of course, it was a great experience. I was able to create it together with the customers who came to Tax Knot. However, I think that in the 2000s, it was more an activity by sexual minorities, for sexual minorities.

What kind of activities were you involved in, Mr. Otsuka?

I started a square dance club called Edo Eights in the gay and lesbian community. I was there from 2000 to 2010. I was immersed in dance in the 2000s.

I've never heard of that. What is square dancing?

It's a dance that originated in America and is usually performed to country music. Groups of eight people move according to the instructions of a person called a caller. It's fun because it feels like solving a puzzle. When a customer at Tax Knot asked if they wanted to try square dancing, we gathered some members and practiced every Saturday. At our peak, we had around 150 members.

That's an incredible number of people.

We steadily held demonstrations and gathered people. The fun of square dancing can't be conveyed unless you actually dance it. Mixi [C] also had a community. When the service first started, it was invitation-only, so it felt more secure than bulletin boards, which tend to be more anonymous.

The internet has become commonplace, making it easier for gay people to meet up. The biggest change is being able to tell from the start that someone is gay.

When Mixi first came out, I was a little worried about whether I could keep the bar going. The bar's role up until then was to connect people through the things they love. That said, the people I connected with there would come to the bar at night, so it was a needless worry (laughs).

Mixi also allows people who are reluctant to visit gay bars or who can't drink alcohol to use it, so there are many positive aspects for sexual minorities.

Is the atmosphere in the area around your shop back then, in other words, Shinjuku Ni-chome, different from what it is now? For example, in 2003, a community center called akta was opened, which provides support and awareness to HIV-positive people.

I think there was a strong feeling that people wanted to forget about HIV while having fun drinking in Ni-Chome. akta was making condoms available, but at the time, some people were saying, "Please stop doing that at drinking establishments." It felt like social activism and everyday fun were close together, but didn't mesh well.

However, after 10 or 20 years, with the advent of new ideas, such as the design of condom packaging, it has become natural. It takes time for knowledge to spread and for it to be accepted.

As you mentioned at the beginning, it feels like social movements have spread in the 2010s. What are your thoughts on this, Mr. Otsuka?

I think you're right. The parade in particular is completely different from previous events, both in terms of funding and management. The content of the parade is also focused not only on sending out a message, but also on the participants themselves having fun.

Furthermore, the Partnership Ordinance has been enacted, and same-sex marriage lawsuits brought by sexual minorities are also progressing. I think that these movements by the parties themselves are firmly connected, but only by a thin line, to the diverse activities of the 2000s.

Also, when I look at Katami-san, it seems like rib-like things have become as natural as the air. It's like he's not satisfied with just having fun. He carries on the history of the past, but at the same time, I sense a future that lies ahead. I think he's a very modern presence.